Mathematician: My two cents are that astronomical evidence (what we can tell about galaxies from here on earth) indicates that the laws of newtonian mechanics and gravitation in space are just the same they are here. I imagine that some quantum mechanical laws in space are harder to verify, but no one has ever observed an experiment that varied as a function of the location where it was performed. In other words, I would say that there is no evidence that the laws of physics function differently elsewhere in the universe. Of course, that doesn’t mean that there is NO CHANCE that they differ, just that there is no reason to think they do.
Physicist: To date there is strong evidence that physical laws are identical everywhere. At the very least all the laws governing atomic spectra and fusion are the same (starlight) which covers just a hell of a lot. You could also argue (not a proof) that the fundamental postulates or relativity need all positions (and all constant velocities) to have the same physical laws.
Most importantly, there is absolutely no evidence to imply that the laws change anywhere/when.
look….all the laws of physics we know…..are made on earth. And we know that the earth is revolving around the sun. now the laws are made upon experimental observations. these experiments take about 1-2 days. in 1-2 days earth covers a distance which is a negligible curve* (a straight line). thus this frame of reference is observed all over the universe….or as far as observable universe is conserned. ( meaning whenever these laws are obeyed the body is moving in a straight line*. THUS THESE LAWS MUST BE OBEYED..
thats what i think…..and thats what i think should be….
By definition if it is a “LAW of physics” it applies everywhere. If it didn’t, it wouldn’t be a law, right…?
The laws could include location dependent. But that doesn’t seem to be the case.
The “location dependent” part of the law wouldn’t change at a given location though. It’s like an “If, then..” statement. Just because the “If” is fulfilled doesn’t mean that the actual “law” or “statement” changes.
If the laws of physics functioned differently then that would mean that the “If, then” statement changed.
(Btw, I am positive you know plenty more about physics than me, consider this a learning dialect for me :))
^
I hope you understood what I was trying to say.
Consider a physical law:
“If the location is x, then y
If the location is z, then q
. . . ”
And all of these “If, then” scenarios can be represented with mathematical equations and such.
What I am distinguishing is that just because the location is x, and therefore the y value differs, does not make the actual “law” different. The location part is already included in the law and is therefore not functioning differently.
If you don’t accept the above argumentation, then you must accept that some laws of physics actually do differ for location. Case in point: gravity. The closer your location is to an object the stronger you are pulled. But would you say that this means the law of gravity functions differently at a different point in the universe?
(Once again, please forgive me if I am sounding arrogant, these are just questions presented in a debate form [because debate is so much funner])
the law of gravity might function different… say… incase of the planets which are orbiting around two stars or so… how would be the law applied then??
laws are nothing but an attempt to generalise what is observed and may be an observation which is seen through a particular view not satisfactory for other
I believe there are multiple universes, maybe all at the same time, maybe one is created from the destruction of the previous one, who knows.
Anyways, if you can handle picturing a universe like a “soap bubble”, everything would need to keep consistent laws/rules as to how things work inside. If laws differed by location within the same universe,it would pop out of existence, or be more than just our 3+1 dimensions, but that doesn’t really count.
For example, if a particle with our laws (inertia, conservation etc) somehow collided with an outlaw particle that didn’t abide, I imagine the would-be inertia/kinetic energy would tear the universe apart or have some other apocalyptic consequence
Not just possible but very probable.
I guess I have to agree with everyone. Because every answer on here is feasible. Thing is physical laws apply to us in this universe, at this moment, at this time. My brain stays on an infinity level it’s hard for me to get out of that spot, so please forgive me if I ramble. This being the case it leads me to believe there’s an infinite number of laws where physics are concerned. There are so many that don’t want to deal with multiple universes and multiple infinities. And the word continuum just makes people cringe. I just think that once we as humans get past the beginning and end thing our minds will grow. If you’ve grown beyond our physics you know as well as I do that in some realities that gas is drinkable and water is used as fuel. Do you see the dot at the end of my last sentence? If you understand where I’m coming from then you know that there are an infinite number of multiverses within that little dot. Step outside the box friends and let’s enjoy this ride together.
And if we’re just going to get down to plain the laws of physics, then I’m going to have to go there. We determine here on this planet at this time the laws of our physics. What we observe what we can test what we can see. Problem is that’s just here in our universe. Our little part of infinity, the bubble that we live in. We are the only ones that have to go by that law. Now we all know laws are broken all the time. Lets leave that option open.
I wonder about the difference between having a law that is location dependent, and having a law that includes location dependence. Scientists have certainly observed location dependence in the outcomes of experiments; the gravitational field at the bottom of a well is different than at the top of a tower, which is different again from aboard the ISS, for example. We just (quite reasonably) try to build location dependence into the mathematical model, rather than trying to construct a new model for each location.
It seems reasonable that observations in very distance locations may vary according to rules not yet known, and which may fit smoothly or jarringly with the rules we currently have. One way to look at it would be that the laws of physics are different in those locations. More likely, it’ll be interpreted as just another piece of the puzzle we call the laws of physics. Quantum Mechanics and Relativity both contradict previously accepted laws, but we always try to unify our worldview. Whether that is a reflection of the fact that nature really has some underlying unity or a reflection of human nature is more a philosophical question. David Hume would have had us believing no experiment could be genuinely relied upon to have the same result in the future, and I’ve yet to hear a convincing critique of his analysis, but science is so useful we love it even if its underpinnings are somewhat more mysterious than we’d like to admit.
John writes: “. . . If you don’t accept the above argumentation, then you must accept that some laws of physics actually do differ for location. Case in point: gravity. The closer your location is to an object the stronger you are pulled. But would you say that this means the law of gravity functions differently at a different point in the universe? . . .”
No. The law of gravity is based on the distance between masses, not where the masses are. That’s a crucial distinction. The law is F_12 = G*m1*m2 / r^2, independent of where the masses are.
Why are orbits of planets not circular rather than elliptical? Is it because there in embedded in every orbiting object a straight line energy that is resolved by the eccentricity? If so, where does that energy originate? Why are some planets on a greater eccentricity than others. Why are all planets’ orbits not completely aligned with the plane of the ecliptic? Will they be aligned at some point in the future or will they continue to be misaligned (i.e. is their orbital alignment influenced by the Sun to become more planar at some point in time)? Do the orbits change their alignment with the ecliptic or remain as currently aligned … and can we really measure their obliquity accurately from Earth? Does the diameter of the Sun fluctuate over time (i.e.tdoes the diameter of the sun shrink or expand as it burns its fuel – not including when it supernovas in the future)? Does the path of the Earth around the Sun vary over time (i.e. is the orbit of Earth perfectly constant or does it fluctuate)? How do we know the position of Earth relative to the position of the Sun to a specific accurate distance? Do the large gaseous planet have a super-dense solid-state inner core? Why are there continuous, colossal storms evident on the surface of gaseous planets like Saturn and Jupiter? Inquiring minds want to know.
@Ron Williams
“Why are orbits of planets not circular rather than elliptical?”
The inverse square law of gravity implies that orbits must be elliptical (here’s why). Circles are just a very, very particular kind of ellipse. Since nothing’s perfect, orbits are at best nearly circular.
“Is it because there in embedded in every orbiting object a straight line energy that is resolved by the eccentricity? If so, where does that energy originate?”
Nope!
“Why are some planets on a greater eccentricity than others.”
There’s nothing forcing them to all be exactly the same.
“Why are all planets’ orbits not completely aligned with the plane of the ecliptic?”
The formation of solar systems concentrates matter roughly into a disk (here’s why), but nothing’s perfect.
“Will they be aligned at some point in the future or will they continue to be misaligned (i.e. is their orbital alignment influenced by the Sun to become more planar at some point in time)?”
Nothing will be perfect in the future either.
“Do the orbits change their alignment with the ecliptic or remain as currently aligned”
They change very little over very large time scales as the planets tug on each other.
“and can we really measure their obliquity accurately from Earth?”
Yup!
“Does the diameter of the Sun fluctuate over time (i.e.tdoes the diameter of the sun shrink or expand as it burns its fuel – not including when it supernovas in the future)?”
All stars change in size and luminosity over time. Our Sun changes on times scales of billions of years.
“Does the path of the Earth around the Sun vary over time (i.e. is the orbit of Earth perfectly constant or does it fluctuate)?”
All orbits change over time, due mostly to the effects of other planets, but also due to the tiny effects of general relativity and the very slightly not-spherical shape of the Sun.
“How do we know the position of Earth relative to the position of the Sun to a specific accurate distance?”
Before we started sending spacecraft beyond Earth orbit, it was not easy!
“Do the large gaseous planet have a super-dense solid-state inner core?”
That’s an open question.
“Why are there continuous, colossal storms evident on the surface of gaseous planets like Saturn and Jupiter?”
That’s another open question! We learn more about the dynamics every year (especially with Juno), but we don’t know all of the details.
“Inquiring minds want to know.”
Clearly!
They apply unequivocally to our universe. That’s where our physics stop when one speaks of infinity which I am we have to take into consideration all possibilities. Which means an Infinity absolutely everything is possible and the laws of physics are not going to be the same everywhere and infinity anything is possible where as being a novice I can understand that’s what we use as fuel in our cars as simple as that. Can in other universes be used nourishment possibly a drink there is no end to the possibilities but we tend is humans in our own physics in our measly little human bodies to think so so that’s my two cents not that it means a damn thing to anyone because I’m not a college graduate definitely not Cantor.